Reef Central Review; the Mr. Burns of Aquarium Forums?

January 12, 2015

From the perspective of a 40 year veteran of the aquarium industry

Updated 9/1/15

Reefcentral.com, Reef Central, Mr Burns, dis-honest forum, slief, trigger334, flaming, infraction, ban-hammer, shillingUPDATE:

Reef Central is up to their usual bad behavior.
We have one of the usual suspects who back in Dec. 2014 made an apology, for which I later took down this blog post (but based on this recent attack, it is back up). Once again he falsely quoted copyright laws and ignored the fact every blog post by me has been made only to defend my name and life’s work.

Then a a new member who only joined on Aug 31 and who I suspect is a shill for a manufacturer made charges that are false about my blog authorship.

Worse though is Reef Central themselves who once again banned a staff member who only went in to politely ask that these false attacks be stopped.
This in itself speaks volumes about this once great forum where many persons I know used to rely on information and discussion from, but have since abandoned because of the liberal and hateful attitude that has gone forth here.


ORIGINAL POST

I have already dealt with Reef Central and a members personal attacks on me and a friend in this previous post:
Vile and Hateful Comments, Member of Reef Central; JPMagyar

I have also dealt with Reef Central and two members in particular in an article I wrote for Fish as Pets:
Reef Central; Aquarium UV Sterilizer Hall of Shame
In the above article, one of those attacking me with disrespectful ad hominem attacks is even a moderator.

This brings me to this thread from Reef Central:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2391677

Here we have an employee (Trigger) whose has a degree in human relations who works part time for me in dealing with social media, forums, out reaches etc.
He WAS a member of Reef Central and recently stumbled across this thread where there were out right lies about TMC AquaRays and their customer service as this same member has done in the past with TMC UV Sterilizers in both customer service and availability.
Trigger never pretended to be anyone and he never attempted to sell these LED lights, only defend miss-representation of this light and the companies selling these products.

Rather than debate the facts these members went into what are all to often typical Reef Central alleged un-moderated member personal attacks on Trigger and others who dared defend the facts (this despite Reef Central rules that prohibit defamatory remarks).
I am sorry but a forum should be about sharing of ideas, information, and known facts, NOT making up information and lies about my customer service as well as making personal attacks.
I personally find this vile and contemptible and as far as I am concerned the owners of Reef Central owe me an apology for allowing these slanderous personal and ad hominem attacks.

Here is a comment about my customer service:
“If I ran my business the way this company does, I’d be out of business.”

Ditto, I HAVE run the business how he thinks I should, this almost put us out of business due to the sheer volume of calls, not to mention persons not following advice when they did purchase and then file fraudulent charge backs (which email records protect us against).
He should have read our complete Mission Statement rather than quoting my Contact page, as it states that we get about 6000 hits per day to our articles and we need a way to screen the questions to those that are truly customer service related and then provide further reading information, pictures, and other tools since we are an online business, not a brick and mortar store!

I have built my businesses and experimented with different ways of delivering the best customer service possible to as wide an audience as possible, of which most of this audience are not even paying customers.
I should also note that I have been in management, including a stint as a production manager and commercial pilot training where by I have been applauded for my skills in efficiency, recognizing my own weaknesses, and most importantly; customer service and information.
So for these people to discredit my customer service without any knowledge of it is both repulsive and disgusting and the alleged lack of moderation by Reef Central puts on display their disgusting behavior for all to see.

As well, the comments made about my lack of credit in two Fish as Pets articles I co-wrote; one a comparison of the EcoTech and AquaRay where by I provide good science based information as well as solid reasons why I went with the AquaRay LEDs.
Reference: EcoTech Radion Versus TMC Aqua Ray HO LED Aquarium Lights

This contemptible member at Reef Central certainly has the right to say he thinks I made the wrong decision.
Instead he writes this:
“FWIW, that Fish-as-pets site link you posted happens to be owned by the distributor American Aquarium Products. That is marketing fluff being promoted by the distributor. Certainly not an objective comparison.”

Sorry pal, if I have done my homework as clearly explained in this article should I not sell what I think is the best? If I did otherwise, then he would have a point and as well I would be rather dishonest to research something and otherwise sell the opposite of what my research suggests.
In fact I have made a business over the last 35 years of promoting what I would use myself and often not selling all products from the same manufacturer based on some performing well and others not. It is noteworthy that I have been asked many times why I sell one product from a certain company and not another or even products from companies I do not care for as a general rule, but have some good products (example API & Weco).

This same member goes on to attribute some other persons blog to me, even though this blog clearly states who this author is and my articles all clearly identify me (no brilliant detective work needed by this self appointed sleuth); again talk about credibility!!!

What is also interesting is that my Stat Software shows 9 out of 10 hits to this Fish as Pets article comparing the EcoTech to the AquaRay that originate from this Reef Central thread show visits of less than 5 seconds; It is interesting how they make their judgments based on such a short visit!!

Since this guy seems to think little testing or hard core use has been done with the AquaRay, despite this product in its first viable phase has been around since 2008, here is a website documenting St Mary’s Marine Biology Departments use:
St Mary’s Marine Biology Experiments with LED Lighting

Maybe if he were to emerge from Reef Central he would know this??

In my Fish as Pets articles about Reef Central and UV Sterilizers I quote this comment by this same individual:
“This guy sure needs a lot of fluff to sell UV units. Unlike Tropical Marine Centre, AquaUV while more expensive has a great distribution network and a great reputation. You can get AquaUV parts from nearly every reputable on line retailer across the country.
If you need bulbs, seals or o-rings, companies like Marine Depot have them on hand. AquaUV backs their products with great direct support too unlike Tropical Marine Centre. While AquaUV is not the cheapest UV on the market, like the link you provided say, they are quality units with great dwell time. What they fail to mention is their great support. Same can be said about Emperor Aquatics. Something that is non existent with Tropical Marine Centre who is over seas and depends exclusively on retailers for support.”

Reference: Reef Central; Aquarium UV Sterilizer Hall of Shame

This is a total fabricated lie!!
Worse yet is his total disrespect for my years of work, research, hands on experience, and free advice and help I have provided to 1000s over the years.
Growing up, if I talked or referred to someone like this, I would have had my ears slapped back by my Dad or Grandfather, but this guy clearly is a disrespectful keyboard bully and narcissist. The fact the moderators give such a person a free reign on Reef Central shows a lot about the ethics and reliability of information presented on this forum.

As to the facts of my article, this article is about UV Sterilization and why my experience and research shows why it should be used; NOT ABOUT SELLING THE TMC UV STERILIZERS! It is noteworthy that I sell far more than just the TMC UV line of Sterilizers.
What is also noteworthy is when it comes to selling, most of my effort in emails often is to tell persons actually what they should purchase is NOTHING and how to use what they have correctly.
To imply I need fluff to sell when 90% of customer service is helping others, NOT SELLING is libelous. This person needs to do his homework such as reading my bios (which are easily found) where it is obvious I am not getting rich with snake oil and fluff sales. What is comes down to is this person is making libelous comments about another person (me) he knows nothing about and does not care to do even the remotest research about whom he is making these libelous statements.

See also:
Business Bio of Carl Strohmeyer from AAP

In the end, another member gets the last word calling out Trigger:
“Shilling is still shilling, no matter how you wish to spin it. Shilling gets you removed from this forum, and you brought that on yourself so when you continue to badmouth RC on your blogs, remember you are the one who chose to ignore the rules. It is as simple as that. You will not be missed and this thread will remain for all to see in perpetuity. You will be your own worse enemy.”

I personally do not think this guy even understands what a shill is, a quick internet search will prove this since his Profile was there for everyone to see and he was only to defend against lies put forth and frankly to defend my honor (for which I am grateful).

As well, Trigger has no other blogs that I know of attacking Reef Central, so I have no idea where this liar pulled this out his butt from.
Again even the most basic of “detective work” shows that he has helped on my AAP website, a guest authorship at Aquarium Article Digest, and his person blog; none of these have any badmouthing of RC!
Here are just two outside of his help with AAP:
https://lifehowdevonknowsit.wordpress.com/
http://aquarium-digest.com/2014/01/07/what-to-consider-when-choosing-your-aquarium-lights/

In the end, it is the opposite that will happen, especially since I get emails and I am very active in the professional aquarium keeping community telling me of how little they respect Reef Central, and that is the moderators lack of keeping their members on a leash and contemptible talking down and disrespect further prove that Reef Central is NOT the place for good aquarium information in our opinion.
One such term I have heard floating around in these circles is the term “Reef Police” and ban hammer where by you WILL get attacked or banned by Reef Central if you dare venture outside their little circles of agreed upon facts.
Triggers experience and YES, ban as he told me is further proof of what an allegedly contemptible place Reef Central is for honest moral persons, at least when it comes to getting advice that is not colored in personal attacks that lack any real moderation!
This is why RC is also not a forum my company will consider sponsoring.

What is comes down to, is others certainly have the right to disagree with my conclusions, but they certainly do not have the right to make personal attacks nor the moral right to ban members who defend lies put forth about my content or customer service.

BTW, here is the User Agreement for Reef Central:
http://www.reefcentral.com/index.php/user-agreement

In this agreement you will read this:
“You agree not to post, transmit or link to any unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, profane, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable material of any kind, “

Apparently they selectively enforce these rules, as they clearly have made defamatory statements about me in many posts (and this is from a legal opinion too).

Here is another rule:
“Any member that has any commercial connection to a product or company, or a to a directly competing product or company, is requested to clearly divulge that relationship when posting a comment about that product or company.”

I would have to concede that my employee (Trigger), should have divulged that he was an employee rather than depending upon his profile to clarify who he was, but quite frankly this is nit picking when they aggressively enforce this rule while they ignore the constant flaming that goes on there.
An honest person has to look at his intentions which were clearly NOT to market this product, rather to defend against blatant lies and personal attacks against me and what I choose to sell.

Hopefully some professional acting persons will take control of Reef Central, as it certainly started out as a GREAT place in 1999 (if I am correct).
This should include a sincere apology for the libelous comments (not the respectful disagreements) that have been said about me on this forum, as it is one thing to respectfully disagree, but to spread lies and use of personal “ad hominem” attacks to disagree is simply a childish way to debate anything.

Reference: Logical Fallacies

Update 7/10/15

This person who still likes to criticize me to this day for attempting to defend myself stated I am attempting to discredit Reef Central and I have no right to quote this forum.
Sorry once again sir, am I supposed to sit back while you publish lies about me, my motives, and why and what I sell? I am going to defend myself and my life’s work.
As well, your forum has banned my staff member who attempted to defend me in the forum, is this diplomatic as you would say?

He also does not even understand copyright laws.
From the website: Intellectual Property
“Short quotations will usually be fair use, not copyright infringement. The Copyright Act says that “fair use…for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright.” So if you are commenting on or criticizing an item someone else has posted, you have a fair use right to quote.”

Recent Thread from Reef Central (July of 2015):
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2513101

Here are a few of his misguided and incorrect quotes:

“I will also note that myself as well as a couple other forum members have had run in with this individual on this very forum. The end result was him taking our words posted on Reef Central (word for word) and quoting us in his blogs in a manner that wasn’t very nice and trying his damndest to discredit us. To each his own I guess but I don’t consider that ethical not to mention that it was actually copyright infrindgment since RC is copyright protected. Neither myself or the others who were involved granted him permission to quote us let alone the owners of RC. Clearly not a diplomatic business owner IMO”

As noted, he does not seem to understand the laws and that I have a right to defend myself, especially when they kick of my trained staff member for attempting to defend me.
This guy has flipped ethics upside down, as he seems to think it is OK for them to talk personal smack about me and my work, but I have no right to defend myself? Liberal hypocrisy at its height!!!!

Here is another incorrect statement:
“What’s more interesting is that the site you found this on is the owner of the company that is the sole US distributor for TMC who makes the Aquaray lights”

Sorry, wrong again. We are not the only online and far from the only seller in the USA.
In fact we do not even come up number one in Google search among USA sellers.
Another fact he seams to not know is that Quality Marine is not even the sole USA distributor!!!.

More:
“I will give credit to the US distributor as they seem to provide good service on warranty returns as long as it’s not a power supply failure which happens to be the biggest issue with these lights. The warranty in the US states 5 years however, power supplies don’t include a 5 year warranty and they don’t include that info on the packaging.”

Wrong once more, the power supply is warranted for 2 years, longer than many other entire fixtures, and while not on the outer packaging it is CLEARLY stated on our website and in the warranty information enclosed with each LED light.

I will admit is this latest thread, this Reef Central member actually gives me some positive shout-outs as well as clearly is watching his wording in how he speaks of me.
However, while I appreciate the kind & positive words, it still does not give him the right to continue to make up facts about me, the products I sell or even trademark laws.

As well, I do not ask to be agreed with, only to be treated with respect and not make up “logical fallacy” arguments in an attempt to discredit me (which is an attempt to turn the tables on me calling me the one attempting to discredit). I certainly do not think I am the God of aquarium lighting or UV Sterilization and others certainly have a right to disagree with my conclusions as long as they are factual and not personal.

Reef Central Review; the Mr. Burns of Aquarium Forums

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Vile and Hateful Comments, Member of Reef Central; JPMagyar

March 5, 2014

Vile, bully, Hateful Persons, Joe Peck of Reef CentralWhile JPMagyar (Joe Peck) may have a beautiful marine reef aquarium and has had this aquarium for at least 13 years. I will also credit him with an incredible system that likely keeps water parameters at their best and uses one of the most proven Metal Halide lights. This one aquarium does not make him an expert and in fact what he has as per his beautiful reef aquarium would not be all that difficult to replicate for anyone of his “means”.

With this though, he seems to think he can attack others with his hate filled diatribes, as if he knows them or their expertise counts for nothing.
Keep in mind too that the Reef Central internet forum he resides at is well known in professional aquarium keeping circles as place where facts are often attacked via “Ad hominem” attacks by SOME members while ignoring the science such as in the use of True Level 1 UV Sterilization for disease prevention (although honest moderation is clearly lacking here).

Back to this member of Reef Central, he sent me personally a vile and hateful email where he judged my character while not even considering my life’s works maintaining and setting up literally 1000s of aquariums professionally since 1978 and as a hobbyist going back to the late 1960s. These contracts include major entities such as the famous Bahooka Restaurant with over 100 aquariums or a contract with Disney.

This man also sat in judgment of my character with his vile and hateful comments all the while he sits in his nice home while he wants for nothing (yes I have seen his pictures on the Internet).
All the while he calls me “corrupt” for my “snake oil” sales tactics even though I cite science as well as years of hands on experience and even many controlled tests in many of my articles such as UV Sterilization.

Meanwhile what has this so-called corrupt “snake oil salesmanship” brought me?

  • Since I have always placed others over my wants and desires; I gave up my largest account that also generated more leads than any other account (the Bahooka Restaurant) because one of the owners was making sexual innuendos toward an employee and others there refused to correct the situation.
  • I have also turned away many sales and contracts after telling persons that they do not need what they think or were told they need
  • After my wife suffered from severe postpartum depression that resulted in a hospital stay and Psychopath taking advantage of her, my daughter, and our finances, I still stood by her and gave up my two favorite hobbies to this day (20 years later); skiing and flying
  • After issues came to a head with the before mentioned Psychopath after a revelation from my then 9 year old daughter, I elected to leave everything behind including my aquarium maintenance/design business and store.
    During this time, I consulted a lawyer who advised chapter 7 bankruptcy so as to not carry the tens of $1000s of debt incurred by the event of this man and my wife’s postpartum depression.

    HOWEVER, I chose to leave my business running since my lawyer noted that all jobs would be lost as the banks liquidated the business for assets. Employees asked me to try and leave these jobs in tact, but in the end one couple I trusted stabbed in the back and stole considerable assets and client accounts from me. Thankfully my maintenance/design business was partially spared by a very loyal employee.
    But in the end I lost much while trying to place others above $$$.
  • Over the years I have always treated employees with respect, often resulting in many employees thanking me many years later when looking me up.
    As well I have often paid employees better than myself, which the employee who took over my maintenance company noted that he made more when working for me with less responsibility than when he was just a manager of the aquarium maintenance and design business
  • I still to this day live in a 950 square foot house, that is very old, drafty and with many constant issues.
    WHY?
    I still give much of my time to others, often helping freely 7 days a week with nothing in return.
    As well my articles that I still spend considerable time in keeping up to date are read by 3000 or more persons per day, while less than a fraction of 1% ever purchase from me, so I get little in return other than vile comments by persons such as this member of Reef Central

I guess in the end, this is what corrupt persons do, huh Sir????

See also:
Isaiah 5:20

Here is a comment he sent me three years ago.

12/11/10
“I am shocked and dismayed by your site. I am also saddened at the “Snake Oil” salesman approach and the number of folks out there who will be fleeced by your supposed knowledge. You make me sick. LEDs are only good if you can target the responsive wavelength needed and given the absolute lack of data on various coral responsiveness to prescribe such a narrow band of light as a universal solution is daft or corrupt so given the strength of you written word I realize you are not daft so that leaves corrupt. Show me a neon-red Stylophora frag grown under white and blue LED lighting for 3 years then come talk.”

Below is a recent comment JP made on a friend’s website/blog that was forwarded to me.
Obviously he forgot about his own comment to me, since it has been three years and many are keeping corals under LED lights. This is not to say the Metal Halides he uses are not excellent as these are in many cases still the best, but T5s, who is he kidding with the wealth of science and results in both freshwater planted and marine reef aquariums?

2/25/14
“One of the greatest travesties of our day is that anyone can create a fancy webpage and come off as a expert. LEDs are a disaster for the saltwater aquariuum. Can they work? Yes. But in the hands of a new aquarist they kill far more corals than they grow and they look hideous but because new entrants are pushed towards LEDs they never have a chance to compare the relative aesthetics of T5 or metal halide. I can only hope that no one is actually reading and believing your drivel

Now I get it you work for Aquaray the worst LEDs on the market by a mile. You can’t keep an SPS under ANY Aquaray. What a joke this site is . . .
Wanna see a real tank and talk to a real aquarist come to ReefCentral.com and search for JPMagyar and look for my thread :JPMagyar’s 240. A Decade of Work.
That’s how aquariums can look if done properly and not with joke lighting like an Aquaray.
Aquaray . . . over AI you have got to be kidding.”
JP

Sorry, my friend did NOT go over to Reef Central and read your self promotional material, nor will I.
His comment about the AI versus the AquaRay is also another Straw Man argument and the article he questioned this about presented the scientific evidence that the Aqua Illuminations is clearly not the best, but he rejected it by his usual baseless Ad hominem attacks.
As for who my friend works for, just a little reading would show he is a writer with a keen interest in the aquarium hobby who himself has been involved for about 10 years and he is a person who actually respects others research and has read, learned, and even changed his opinions (as have I) many times when new facts have come to light (such as I have in Lighting, Redox, and other aquarium keeping subjects).

I think my previous paragraph is the key; this man clearly does NOT read others writings, as he cannot even find the most basic of information about myself or my friend, let alone science, as it is all all about his self absorbed fantasies about himself.
While my friend is more private other than very basic information about himself, since I have been in business for some time and have authored many articles, much about me is available and easy to find but for some of the more intimate personal details of my life.
So in the end, this person had no excuse for the vile comments he launched my way.

I will not go into too many details to refute this mans hateful words, as so much evidence has been presented to the contrary of what he has said (I will provide links to some articles further down in this post), but I will point out another interesting piece of information for him and others who make assumptions of their integrity about others that they disagree with.

Since he has been convinced by one of the sponsors of Reef Central (Aqua Illuminations) that their LED is among the best, and while I know little other than the scientific evidence to refute this thinking, I do know about one of their other sponsors and that is Ocean Revive/Evergrow (they are one in the same) and that the regional salesperson for these that goes into these forums lives in a VERY posh residence.
One might ask why to I bring up this seeming “Straw Man” argument?
Well since JP and others too have attacked my credibility in articles such as lighting since I sell “AquaRay” or other items that have met my testing and others I respect testing as well, it is noteworthy that when I do my make the occasional sale, I make little as evidenced by my near sparce living conditions, while other Aquarium Reef LEDs provide a MUCH more comfortable profit margin where by they can live much more opulent lifestyles.
So one has to use some basic Economics 101 logic and realize that these products that often sell for less than the AquaRay, MUST then use some rather inexpensive parts and construction methods, WHICH THEY DO!!
As these other LEDs do not have patent rights, which cost the “big bucks”. Just look at your new prescriptions versus ones out of patent, and as well the fact these other lights use the MUCH less costly current reduction method of driving/controlling their LED versus PWM, this shows this to be a fair reasonable conclusion and NOT a straw man argument.

As a side note, I am not attacking the regional salesperson for Ocean Revive, in fact I applaud his success, I only bring this up to point out the simple economic FACTS that you can make high profits, sell low and still maintain quality!!

Here are just a few references to refute this mans comments.
One certainly can reject or accept these articles and the further resources cited, but resorting to personal attacks that even then have no basis in fact is both rude and vile.

SUMMARY:

After circulating what this man sent me three years ago to others in the professional aquarium keeping community, I was not shocked when he spread his hateful words to others once again in an attempt to bully others.
So rather than just warn others in my circles of what kind of person this man is, I will let others who are interested how this bully treats persons behind closed doors that he disagrees with.
If one just reads his writings, you would not know what a bully with his hate filled comments he really is in how he treats others with contempt. Unfortunately he makes downright hurtful/evil assumptions of others character without investigating anything about others he makes such pronouncements.

I have saved his comments to me, and those forwarded to me by my friend should he continue to make such libelous accusations and should legal action be needed in the future, as maybe having a court take some of his “stuff” might make this person more humble.


Obamanite; The Definition of

March 26, 2011

Obamanite, Obama, Hitler, No we cannot, Yes we can These points define a person that can be addressed by the description of an “Obamanite”.

Updated 5/07/12

Not all points need to be observed in a person to be described as an Obamanite, although at least 50% should be present.

Add to FacebookAdd to DiggAdd to Del.icio.usAdd to StumbleuponAdd to RedditAdd to BlinklistAdd to TwitterAdd to TechnoratiAdd to Yahoo BuzzAdd to Newsvine

It is also noteworthy that just because a person voted for Obama in 2008, this does NOT necessarily make this person an Obamanite.

A reader might ask my reason for even writing this post? A fair question, so in a nutshell I have worked in a field of business (Aquarium Supplies & Resources) for over 3 decades that is probably one of the most liberal fields one can work in and while being liberal does not make one an Obamanite (I know many liberals who are most definitely NOT Obamanites!), I do get so many lazy and nasty emails, phone calls, etc from persons that then get upset just because I attempt to help them help themselves (they want their aquarium information spoon fed and refuse to read many of the articles I send them to back up what I tell them in an answer to a question) or get upset when I call the out on their false accusations or anecdotal information; I felt such a post here was necessary to clear the air from my perspective.

  1. If you are offended by this post/article, you likely are an Obamanite (even if you fit less than 50% of this points)
  2. Truth has no meaning, Lying is a means to an end
  3. A person who cannot see truth and is believes they are in the right even when the facts are presented otherwise
  4. Often condescending to others, yet rarely can see this themselves and think that they are the nicest most reasonable person you would ever meet
  5. Narcissistic Behavior (similar to above point), where these person act and may even think the world revolves themselves, all the while showing no respect for others and their talents and knowledge.
    These persons are the type that will post on Facebook all about themselves yet NEVER take the time to look at others activity, even family and even when receiving “likes”. In my particular case, my online business depends upon a Google algorithm that includes Facebook popularity, however even though I have spent the time looking at others endeavors, I can find weeks where I track only 1 click from Facebook (versus 1000s elsewhere as a comparison). Sadly even my nieces act this way, but this is in part based also on other condescending Obamanite world views IMO
  6. Narcissist who thinks they are “all that”, their poop does not stink, and that they most important person.
    Obamite, Obamanite, Narcissist
    Often simple “Body Language” will ‘tell much’ as to this very common symptom of an Obamite as displayed with this sickening and disgusting picture of President Obama.

    See this excellent article:
    Analysis of Obama’s Psychological Make-Up

  7. Makes up falsehoods about others, often believing their own lies.
    Often text book Sociopath behavior typical of what may seem on the surface as likeable, ordinary persons, but in reality only have intentions to make themselves look good, OR WORSE!
    I have met a few of these persons in my life, with one causing great harm to my family, the other more person destruction that still hurt me and others around me.
    As is obvious Barack Obama also shows these traits, but he is not only destroying one family, but a nation.
  8. Accuses others of not providing help for themselves (or others), when never looking into the facts that scream otherwise
  9. Believes others are placed on this planet to help them, at any time, hour, etc.
  10. Refuses to read anything for themselves, believing others should provide all the information they desire
  11. Believe rules are for others to follow, as they are above rules or policies (I see this constantly in business with persons who leave phone messages that make running my business unprofitable because they are above the rules/policies).
  12. Others are not entitled to make a living from their hard work (this is one I observe constantly where persons treat my time as worthless and then get upset when I attempt to get them to help me help them, all after putting in 14 hour days)
  13. When they fail at something, it must be someone else’s or somethings fault.
    Again I see this when a product I have tested, which few if any other in my business ever perform for customers prior to shipping; then will state that I am screwing them or sending defective products when in reality it is their application, installation, or product that they have placed the new product in that is not functioning (this is especially common with UV Replacement Bulbs and a recent sale of T2 Lights where the person made false accusations and when the lights were returned they were fully functional [sadly 95% of returns, since I pre-test, end up not being defective!]).

    Often such a person will look their inability to make something work or inability to perform a task and despite overwhelming statistics of others succeeding with this same task will still blame others, the product, or the task itself.
    This person I referred to with the T2 lights is an example as even after returning the fully functional & tested lights for a second time claims the lights cannot/will not work. A reasonable non-Obamanite person would realize that maybe they simply are doing something wrong in installation.
    This analogy applies to all aspects of life an politics and is sadly how many persons think; just listen to all the clueless persons in the early stages American Idol who get mad at the judges when told that they simply cannot sing (I for one cannot either, as well cannot perform other tasks such as hanging dry wall correctly, but I do not blame others correcting me or the dry wall as being defective!!!)

  14. Believe Government is the answer to many if not most problems (the government is not your “Daddy”)
  15. Refuses to read or believe anything for themselves, even when the truth or references are right in front of their face!
  16. Rarely can apologize
  17. Will Personally Attack those they disagree with when confronted with known facts.
    I do NOT mean this specifically in the arena of politics either.

    As an example, I have read the forum “Reef Central” many times where nearly everyone will pile on in criticising well written articles about the use of LED Fixtures often using the “straw man” complaint that the articles are biased toward a specific brand (in particular TMC AquaRay LEDs).
    So What?? If I or others have done their research including my personal use and consulting with my professional “sister” aquarium maintenance companies whose use of many different LED fixtures have found one brand to shine well above others, why should I or these other authors not be biased??
    These are ridiculous Obamanite responses. What would be dishonest would be for me or these other authors know the facts about a TMC LED Aquarium Fixture yet recommend others LEDs just so as to appear unbiased.

    The facts are these types “biased accusations” are a popular Obamanite “Straw Man” argument thrown about in many aspects of life.

  18. Google by definition is an Obamanite company with many Obamanite minions.
    So while this is not actually a definition to apply, this is more an example OF an Obamanite and based on my dealings with dishonest Google staff, chances are if you work for Google; you ARE an Obamanite!